The initial debate on the Articles of Impeachment yesterday was an intentional fiasco-the goal of the GOP is to get people so frustrated that they tune out. In the comments, let’s discuss if this plan is working. Did you tune out, when you usually watch? Did you hear others say they tuned out? Was it a waste of time?
Tell me what you thought about yesterday’s hearing.
I watched for 6 hours! It was aggravating but eventually I just started shooting my nerf gun at the TV when they came on. I refuse to quit! I ran an ongoing summary in my FB group for those who could not watch.
I love that strategy ❤️. It was frustrating as heck. Surprising we don’t have rules of engagement in a debate that involves supposed Christian fundamentalists . You would think they would be required to act in a professional and mature fashion. I wonder what their congregations think of their childish, vitriol and outlandish rants.
I watched on and off during the day and until the midnight fiasco. I didn't hear the Republicans say anything new and I did hear them repeatedly describe things that the timeline shows isn't true. For example: Ukraine didn't know the money had been withheld. The time line shows they did. How can they say there was not obstruction when he clearly told his aides not to turn over documents or answer subpeonas. What happened to decency and honesty in the Republican party. After forty-five years as a republican, I joined the democratic party.
I watched. For twelve. Hours. 12 grueling hours. I wanted to turn it off but I knew that's what they wanted. It was the worst most annoying thing I've ever seen in my life. I'll be honest, I'd be very surprised if most normal people lasted a half hour.
I think you are right, Jack. But maybe we who battled it out longer can explain our compulsion to those who did not and learn a little about 1) ourselves and 2) strategies for battling the fascist propaganda that is taking hold? Keep us posted...
I tuned out because it was mostly Republican lying and screaming and throwing tantrums. The intelligence committee hearings were the ones to watch as Democrats built a solid case against Trump. It is infuriating to see so many Republicans lie for Trump.
Tune back in anyway, Gwen! Go find people to be with the eve of the floor vote - efforts to be together in physical protest are planned in 400+ spots around the country. You will be revivified for the next steps and maybe even to get out voters to the election in 2020? Turnout will be KEY, not Tune-out.
Oh jeez, sorry, Amy framed the question “tune out” and so I used that to say I did not glue myself to the tee-vee, but I am in no way “tuned out” of the process. Thanks, though.
No they didn't only about what was addressed, but what happened before the phone call is just as important, those witnesses have something to say and we didn't hear it, that was error number one.
I watched as much as time allowed but saw comments from 100s of people who were frustrated & tuned out. With McConnell already announcing he will be co-ordinating with the WH the whole process is already pre-determined so I think a lot of folks just think it’s a hopeless waste of time. As a Canadian, I see Trump’s unbelievable behaviour, GOP complicity, this farcical impeachment process, gerrymandered voting districts, Trump’s Hitleresque hate rallies and the people that attend them, Trump’s attacks on allies & cozying up to murderous dictators, McConnell’s corrupt manipulation of judicial appointments since 2010 and Faux News and I wonder what lies ahead for America. Frankly, it doesn’t look like the America we used to know.
Very well said. We are in for the fight of our lives as Americans and our wonderful Canadian allies and many others. Propaganda and religion have poisoned the minds of many who are willing to abuse power and ignore laws in order to retain control of the government. I have fought hard for progressive ideas and policies since protesting SCOTUS justice Bjork. There will be bad days ahead. But I truly believe most Americans are not pro-white supremacy, and do not hate non-Christians , LGBTQ ppl, POC, and immigrants . I truly believe America will come out stronger. But we have courts filled with unqualified judges . We have a senate filled with GOP white Supremists’ and southern racists and separatists. There is much to change. One day at a time.
Hasn’t this been the goal of this entire presidency? It is propaganda designed to demoralize - and divide - democrats while consolidating republican support.
I have not tuned out but I've had to fight not to do so. The GOP is a wicked, self-serving machine that cares nothing for the Constitution or the rule of law but they are a machine without defections or deviation. It is my hope that Schiff and the Dems will continue to uncover more and more evidence of Trump's global crime spree and bring it to light.
The institution - the GOP - has been coopted. It appears to be "wicked" and "self-serving" with no room for script deviation. But I remember Walt Whitman's beautiful words: "Every atom that belongs to me, as good as belongs to you." That accrues easily when I think about my love, my children, ... my dog! And it is also true, however painful, when remembering the humanity of which our opposition is comprised... even a Narcissist-in-Chief...
So, for me, the challenge is put this sentiment you have expressed so adroitly, Dan, into a little lockbox - to review from time to time, but not to hold fast - and force myself to go forward to meet the opposition with as much humility and grace as I can muster while doggedly trying to remove them from power.
I couldn’t watch. It’s too infuriating and they are repeating the same talking points at every hearing, this one with just more hysteria. The plan is working because they don’t care about context. They want clips and sound bites for Fox News and re-election campaigns. Neither side expects the needle to move, both are shoring up their bases. With that said I do not mean to imply they are the same. The Repubs are crooks, liars and only care about their individual interests. It’s not even party over country. It’s ME over country.
I turned it off and on. It was making me anxious to hear all their lies over and over again but I will never give up the fight. It makes me want to Resist more. Must continue to fight against the lying and corrupt GOP.
Bless you for that sentiment, Michelle! Be sure to find one of the 400+ demonstrations at 5:30pm (your local time wherever you are) the evening before the final vote and GO! Both go to fuel and be fed by the energy that is the other sentient humans who believe as you. We must co-opt and corrupt the information system flow that the GOP have taken over and show another way forward, however tentative it first feels.
I think these folks tuned out a long time ago, and they are so disenfranchised and uninformed that Trump has successfully co-opted their frustration. He speaks in the language of misinformation. Think about it. The Republican Party has demonized scientists and science, the FBI, the CIA, lifetime public service folks, and the press. They aren’t just going after politicians. They’re going after mainstream knowledge and fact.
I watched just about all of it. I found some moments of brilliance by Democrats, and some staggering and pathetic Republican lies. I wasn’t sure if the consistently repugnant Rethugs’ game was to turn people off so they’d turn it off. But most certainly they simply ignored the facts, and never ever presented a rational defense - rather, were needlessly despicable to a person, which was kind of jaw dropping. I could see all members were repeating facts or lies, depending on the side, to accommodate people tuning in at different points. It reminded me of the OJ trial - constantly on no matter where you go, making celebrities of obscure representatives and adding soaring rhetoric or ugly moments that will live forever.
Watching GOP panicked and scared was delicious. Viewers tuned out based on their own ability to manage the rantings of maniacal religious extremists . There were extremely momentous comments from Cicenelli and Jeffries that will go down in history. Swalwell did a 4 minute summary that was unforgettable. The smart investment in a remote with lightning speed mute cannot be overstated😂 . This was much too important for most progressives to ‘tune out’
I watched off and on. It was so annoying to see the GOP Parade out, one by one and Parrot their remarks. It became a nauseating all day marathon Campaign Ad for Trump. All they needed was for GOP to shout out a phone number, man the lines, and ask for donations. Over and over they were listing the supposed accomplishments under Trump. So, accordiing to GOP, his supposed accomplishments give him the authority to do as he pleases,. Just let him keep breaking the law because the Stock Market looks good. They have nothing to disprove the findings of which clearly show that Trump is guilty and to #ImpeachTrump is the only solution because no one is above the law.
A tweep reminded me that Comey (I know, I know) said that the Russians hacked the Republicans at the same time they hacked the Democrats. The Democrats' emails were released but the Republicans' were not. There must be some wild Kompromat in there. Guessing a combination of sex shenanigans and money laundering. It's the only thing I can think of that would explain their behavior. That and judges.
I always go through tweeter account of each speaker during the debate. The fact I found is ..... there is very very little number of supporters toward any of GOP speakers ( some of them such as Jim Jordan has zero supporter ). The tweet agenda always overwhelmed with the support on Democrats and there are obvious numbers of Republicans who will not vote for those GOP speakers and Trump for the next election.
I think more Republicans are changing their mind from maintaining the support and vote for present GOP and Trump to be against. This movement is outstanding and obvious, they are making the difference.
Now you're talking! Great idea. Hope you are putting all your newfound insight to good effort -- getting turnout UP is going to be key to winning in 2020. And you're better situated that any of the talking heads on any channel who spend more time in their DC/NYC chairs than out and about.
Watched in disgust everytime GOP spewed lies combined with strokes for their master. What are they afraid of? Collins, Jordan, and Gaetz epitomize desperate people do desperate things. All the world's a stage and Putin is in his glory.
Zak! You hit the pointed nail on its head -- "Putin in all his glory" gets the better of me more than Gaetz' pontificating or Jordan's permanent yelling man-splainin'
I found the hearings to be a waste of time due to being forced to hear continuous lies spewed from the mouth of the GOP. I most definitely hit mute anytime they spoke.
Unable to watch due to work, but kept up via Twitter. I'm less concerned with the show, and whether anyone is watching, because what matters is the substance: That is, that the House is doing what the Founders designed and what the Constitution intends. That keeps me anchored. However, at the same time I lovedlovedLOVED the way Nadler messed with them and put off the vote until today. Well done, sir.
I’m so sick of the GOP chaos, yelling, fist pounding, but I refuse to let that push me away. That being said the only way I get through it is either pause so my DVR continues to record and I can ffwd right through them or mute! If I’m watching live, I use mute, with closed captioning, so I know the stupid things they say w/o hearing them! I also use their 5 minutes for bathroom breaks, snacks, check mail etc 😊
I watched four hours. At the end I almost felt like the Republicans especially were just shooting the shit reminiscing about good old times. Several of them even complimented chairman Nadler on how he was holding the meeting telling him what a great job he did and what great Pals they've been for many years. It was like a big reminiscence session for the Republicans because they had nothing left of substance to say. I thought gaetz bringing up Hunter Biden crack cocaine and addiction issues in the past was a new low, although one of the Democrats commented that's the pot calling the kettle black do we really want to go there? The Democrats did not go there because they have class. I actually thought it was a stroke of Genius for Nadler to unexpectedly end the hearing forcing Collins to have a big meltdown and walk out. Boo hoo hoo the Republicans have to work today! I understand the narrowness of the Articles because as we go along and more is revealed with other investigations we can add to the articles of impeachment. Especially the ruling on today's the financials. I am truly fascinated by watching history being made.
The GOP were so annoying, intentionally obtuse, yelling, repetitive (Collins, Gaetz, Gohmert, Lesko to name a few) that I began muting them when they appeared, because I had heard their nonsense already.
I listened on and off throughout the day as work permitted, but definitely had to periodically mute Republicans when they became toxicly insulting and/or screaming.
Understandable. I tuned out for a few meetings and caring for a friend yesterday at points... but I challenge you to get out the votes in your area for the election in 2020. Turnout will be KEY, not Tune-out.
I watched as much as I could due to work. But I am tired of the childish behavior GOP. It is sad our country's future rests with a bunch men who act like spoiled children who will not do their chores.
Like with elections, the GOPs only hope for success is to distract, lie, and cheat. It could very well be why the douchebags of doom have become the mouthpiece of the party. No one wants to listen to Jordan and Gaetz.
The shit show was clearly a presentation to assist Republicans at home to rationalize abhorrent behavior by POTUS.
Reasonable people already knew all of the evidence before the hearing as we have been paying attention all along. Therefore, tuning out during a Jim Jordan temper tantrum really isn't a GOP win.
Lastly, it wasn't a water off timer for many reasons. The best of the reasons is simple posterity. The antics of the GOP judicial committee will bring regret and shame to their family and they're country for decades.
I listened in the car but mostly followed twitter feeds at home - the yelling & repetition gets to be too much for my anger levels. Then last night I read Mitch’s brag about how he controlled Obama’s last 2 years of the presidency & how he’s going to coordinate with the WH and, to tell you truth, I am really angry at the world this morning. I barked at my husband for no reason & I’m just feeling like it’s all for naught. How can the Dem senators get past him?
It was terrible to watch. Why do people act this way, and where is their judgement, right from wrong? I’m sure it turned people off. It turned me off. I think those who are country over party will remain and hopefully some were swayed by these antics to fight for country. Vote 2020 and hopefully everyone has a long memory re, Republicans. I hope Dems can act better during the Senate trial. With dignity, I hope.
It was terrible to watch, yes Agnes. I felt as I do when I catch myself "rubbernecking" a highway accident. Can't stop looking, but know you need to keep your eye on what's ahead. I am redoubling my efforts to get folks registered and committed to actually voting...
I watched all until I had to go to a long planned meeting at 6:00. Set the DVR and listened on NPR as a drove. The process is necessary, norms and standards must be followed, but the GOP wasted their time. The Amendments proposed were unrealistic and their arguments unpersuasive not to mention repetitive. Even to people who might not know better, their lies were as obvious as their faux outrage. Sadly, the GOP has gone all in on protecting the President and that's not their job. We deserve better.
I can't watch during the day as I'm at work but listened in the car on the way home. It's very frustrating listening to Republicans spout lies and process issues. I do tend to tune out when they are speaking because I know they will only be spouting off nonsense. I am so concerned that the facts are no longer trusted. That the work of our intelligence agencies and the honorable people who work there are no longer trusted is very scary. I'm not sure how we get back to sanity but I hope it happens soon.
I watched about 75% of the 2 days hearings. The Rs did very little to defend the specifics of the Articles, instead choosing to attack Dems, the process, defend trump at any and every turn, lie, distort, obfuscate and make baseless accusations. They ignored precedent set in previous proceedings, interrupted Dems constantly and did a lot of yelling.
Dems kept hammering facts, testimony, evidence and the constitution. Swalwell was brilliant. Nader was strong and steady.
R's were most interested in the appearance of a tainted process - constantly accusing the Dems of rules and decorum violations, while they were violating rules and decorum.
The one thing that frustrated me was the lack of addressing the specific lies, accusations and distortions. A few did this some of the time, but I would have liked to see more.
Have not been watching as I have a full-time job but I’m not sure I would have been able to stand it if I could have watched. I’m reading the reports of the hearings to maintain my sanity without sparking my anger. I hope those on the right who’ve watched it have been disgusted by the behavior of the Republicans but I don’t discuss it with them so I don’t know their feelings tbh.
I agree but until there are a lot more people that have reached that point of readiness we’ll just spin our wheels while allowing Repubs to control the anger narrative.
TBH I fear there will be no other choice for our Democracy other than an eventual explosive civil fight. Call it a civil war or whatever you want but the fires are being stoked & I feel ignoring the possibility only puts off the inevitable.
I am amazed how many people tell me that they don't count - their vote doesn't matter because of where we are in this mess. I point out to them how much worse it can get if they stay disengaged... which is where I sense you are going "Lib." But I suggest there are many alternatives to "explosive civil fights," like Turning Out the Vote in 2020.
I’m not going anywhere near disengagement LDMark. I’m waiting on the rest of the country to catch up to my sense of outrage & readiness to move on to the next level of engagement
I tuned out when I normally would watch something this historic. I already agree with Speaker Pelosi and the Dems- Trump and his cabal need to be held accountable and put on notice. I didn’t need to hear the constant firehouse of lies and insults from the Republicans. It’s exhausting and demoralizing, and does nothing to sway my opinion.
Didn't tune out. The REPS had nothing but venom and vileness. The REPS hated how contained DEMS remained and constantly put focus back on to real issue of corruption.
I read a lot of people's comments about tuning out but honestly, I couldn't do that, it's my Country and Democracy we're talking about. I'm already pissed that this question has to be asked. If you tuned out, wtf is wrong with you?
Nothing wrong with self-care, Ethan. Sometimes it's that and sometimes it's other work or commitments... we can be inundated and still care. Don't just be pissed! Be sure you tune other folks in to your thinking... and turn them on to vote. I am amazed how many people tell me that they don't count - their vote doesn't matter because of where we are in this mess. I point out to them how much worse it can get if they stay disengaged. That's true of me and you both, if we dismiss the question Amee has asked to ignited this excellent thread and responses.
Well some people actually had work to do through most of the hearings, no? Plus, they’re not going to move the needle. No matter what. That ship already sailed. The result is known. I was better off getting my work done to avoid weekend work!
I didn't catch the entire thing because I had to work, but was still able to watch about 75% of it. The dems made me proud. They remained calm & rational. They brought up witness testimony and stuck to the facts. There were a few strong convincing speeches and I thought they did a fairly good job at calling out B.S. from the republicans. Unfortunately every last one of the republicans disappointmented me. I was hoping one of them might have a shred of decency and put country over party, but not one single one did. Their "defense" was just distraction & deflection. They mainly focused on irrelevant topics (Hunter Biden this, Hunter Biden that, plus Ukraine corruption, Hillary & Obama), and constantly misrepresented facts by telling half truths and flat out lies. In the evening I started muting some of the more obnoxious reps (Jordan, Gaetz & Collins) because they were just repeating the same schlock over & over. As soon as they were done I tuned right back in.
In my opinion the Dems have presented a strong case, and all my family & friends agree. However we live in a blue bubble and I realize it might take a lot more to convince others. I think the Dems plan to add more articles later and I hope that will help sway public opinion. Once they get their hands on trump's financials we'll see if there is evidence of tax fraud or money laundering. I believe SCOTUS will ultimately rule in Dems favor and they will get his financial records, but how long will it take? If they decide to grant a stay/cert today then we might have to wait until february or march next year. I hope the House an hold off on sending this to the Senate right now. Mitch McConnell has already stated that he is not going to call any witnesses and will move to acquit trump. We all know the republicans will fall in line and they hold the majority.
I watched it all. I told myself eighty times to close the window, it was an endless loop of the GOP circle jerking their time back to Gym and Drunky, all for the same stupid, disingenuous, intentionally flawed characterization of "evidence." I clearly hate myself.
There was a study done on FOX news dumbing you down even if it was just to see what they are saying. I limit how much time I will listen to the GOP in the interest of my INTELLIGENCE.
The main takeaway is that the Republican party is willing to destroy the republic in deference to the service of one man, and their own hides.
The frustration to me is that while the country is obsessed with impeachment, the climate crisis, the biggest issue of our time or any other, continues unabated. Without solutions, and quick, everything else is a moot point. We have no Planet B.
I don't disagree, Jeff... but impeachment is the context. The GOP, who thought they would rather not deal with climate and rather just hoard more power, are fighting their pitched battles because of your very point. And the rest of us as well, because we know we need to pop the zit and clean up the pus and heal the wound. Hopefully there is enough time...
I watched periodically throughout the day, including the last few hours yesterday evening. The GOP is not a serious political party. Their arguments are mostly about process, and their behavior akin to middle school children. I think their plan to obfuscate and confuse the general public is working, largely because the public doesn't understand the subtleties of U.S.-Ukraine policy. GOP talking points play up those nuances to confuse people.
Watched partly via twitter with all the re-post from those I like to follow for good information. It is our duty to watch and engage/educate with the 90% of our country tuning out the antics. Proud of so many Dem's reps who are bringing smarts as well as emotions.
I did not tune out. Some representatives kept talking about the Bidens being guilty, while others reminded viewers of facts that have been testified to under oath. I mute during the rants that have no substance.
I thought that the Dems did a great job in their responses, shutting down the Reps misinformation campaign. However, I'm sure that Trump's base believed every word that the Reps said. When I was a kid I never understood how anyone could believe in the sincerity of televangelists. This is the same feeling.
I tuned out. I think Donald J Dump is the devil incarnate, but the corporate Democrats’ impeachment strategy lost my support when they inexplicably decided not to include any crime in the articles of impeachment.
Floor debate will be interesting... though I doubt they'll entertain any motions, it's bound to be a talking point by many Dems, because the meat is in the Mueller findings.
There is definite merit in this point of view about the narrow-ness of the articles. This is where the overlay of politics and civic duty is most obvious and works to cynicism's benefit. Maybe you can find personal ways in local political efforts this year to work through the impulse to drop the Dem party too! Because for better or worse we need the party.
I vote Democratic and am a registered Dem! I’m actively supporting Warren in Los Angeles (money, canvassing). I could also get excited about Bernie. I’ll vote and support whoever wins the primary, but candidly it’s hard for me to actually get *excited* about anyone else.
I meant more like getting excited about politics locally - like neighborhood, or apartment/homes association - like union or school board - whatever. Building a bench again for engaged folks -- civically motivated. The "just a regular Juan" equivalent of the civil servants we saw testify about their work at State/NSC/DOD... etc. :-)
Ah, this is a great point. One can make so much more difference that way and it’s a direction I’ve been trying to head towards. My energy outside of national politics has been supporting our local public school and district. What about you? Great comments from you on these threads BTW.
I got up off my derrière in 2014. The far right took over state government in 2012 and then solidified in 2014... it's been a slog ever since, but I got a lot of "reinforcements" in 2016. I focus on issues, not party labels (not a secret once your position is known, usually, but it helps to keep the crazy at a manageable decibel level). I work to turn out the vote with relational, voter-to-voter engagement tools. I work on common-sense legislation at the statehouse with orgs. that have long been advocating in that realm (don't reinvent-the-wheel-when-the-train's-going-off-the-rails idea). I try to hold elected officials to account for what they said they would do and didn't and for all they do that we never gave them permission for! :D
They need to include emoluments clause violations! That is the kind of crime that everyone can understand, and what his own supporters think he's fighting against. Once it's clear that he has been using his office for personal financial gain, you'll see the tide turn against him.
I didn’t tune out. It served to reenforce my belief that trump and the GOP must be replaced by people who will honor their vows to the constitution. They have made a sham of democracy and it makes me sad and angry. We must fight harder. I hope the Dems can get their act together.
I definitely did not watch after hearing others report all the GOP did was send out their usual shrill flying monkeys and their usual delusional defenses that “Trump did nothing wrong,” “It’s a hysterical hoax and witch hunt,” “Democrats hate him and hate us,” blah blah blah. But that is a win for them because if someone like me who has made my mind up long ago that Trump has committed impeachable crimes, there is someone who is still unconvinced that also turned it off. Dems need to call these scumbags liars and throw them out of the proceedings if they can’t control themselves in public. Upholding the Constitution isn’t something the GOP is capable of, but they need restraint and the Dems need to figure out a way to do that.
It was hard to watch but I think Republicans succeeded. It'was frustrating to watch and exposed all the flaws of our 2 party system. There has got to be a better way. I mean someone actually said facts aren't facts. That's when I broke out the wine...
I watched for 6 hours! It was aggravating but eventually I just started shooting my nerf gun at the TV when they came on. I refuse to quit! I ran an ongoing summary in my FB group for those who could not watch.
I need a nerf gun.
+1
I love that strategy ❤️. It was frustrating as heck. Surprising we don’t have rules of engagement in a debate that involves supposed Christian fundamentalists . You would think they would be required to act in a professional and mature fashion. I wonder what their congregations think of their childish, vitriol and outlandish rants.
I am soooo getting myself a nerf gun for Xmas.
I watched on and off during the day and until the midnight fiasco. I didn't hear the Republicans say anything new and I did hear them repeatedly describe things that the timeline shows isn't true. For example: Ukraine didn't know the money had been withheld. The time line shows they did. How can they say there was not obstruction when he clearly told his aides not to turn over documents or answer subpeonas. What happened to decency and honesty in the Republican party. After forty-five years as a republican, I joined the democratic party.
Welcome, Marilyn! I agree-we are in real trouble if we no longer have a healthy two-party system.
We haven't really since the Reagan Contra Affair, interactions prior to winning election, I was a pawn of SALTS II.
As a former republican, Welcome Marilyn! It's not perfect here but most of us actually want goodness and fairness for ALL!
I watched. For twelve. Hours. 12 grueling hours. I wanted to turn it off but I knew that's what they wanted. It was the worst most annoying thing I've ever seen in my life. I'll be honest, I'd be very surprised if most normal people lasted a half hour.
I think you are right, Jack. But maybe we who battled it out longer can explain our compulsion to those who did not and learn a little about 1) ourselves and 2) strategies for battling the fascist propaganda that is taking hold? Keep us posted...
I tuned out because it was mostly Republican lying and screaming and throwing tantrums. The intelligence committee hearings were the ones to watch as Democrats built a solid case against Trump. It is infuriating to see so many Republicans lie for Trump.
Tune back in anyway, Gwen! Go find people to be with the eve of the floor vote - efforts to be together in physical protest are planned in 400+ spots around the country. You will be revivified for the next steps and maybe even to get out voters to the election in 2020? Turnout will be KEY, not Tune-out.
Oh jeez, sorry, Amy framed the question “tune out” and so I used that to say I did not glue myself to the tee-vee, but I am in no way “tuned out” of the process. Thanks, though.
No they didn't only about what was addressed, but what happened before the phone call is just as important, those witnesses have something to say and we didn't hear it, that was error number one.
I watched as much as time allowed but saw comments from 100s of people who were frustrated & tuned out. With McConnell already announcing he will be co-ordinating with the WH the whole process is already pre-determined so I think a lot of folks just think it’s a hopeless waste of time. As a Canadian, I see Trump’s unbelievable behaviour, GOP complicity, this farcical impeachment process, gerrymandered voting districts, Trump’s Hitleresque hate rallies and the people that attend them, Trump’s attacks on allies & cozying up to murderous dictators, McConnell’s corrupt manipulation of judicial appointments since 2010 and Faux News and I wonder what lies ahead for America. Frankly, it doesn’t look like the America we used to know.
I just wish more American were so insightful of what is really going on, as you are thanks
Very well said. We are in for the fight of our lives as Americans and our wonderful Canadian allies and many others. Propaganda and religion have poisoned the minds of many who are willing to abuse power and ignore laws in order to retain control of the government. I have fought hard for progressive ideas and policies since protesting SCOTUS justice Bjork. There will be bad days ahead. But I truly believe most Americans are not pro-white supremacy, and do not hate non-Christians , LGBTQ ppl, POC, and immigrants . I truly believe America will come out stronger. But we have courts filled with unqualified judges . We have a senate filled with GOP white Supremists’ and southern racists and separatists. There is much to change. One day at a time.
👍👍🧜🏼♀️
Hasn’t this been the goal of this entire presidency? It is propaganda designed to demoralize - and divide - democrats while consolidating republican support.
I have not tuned out but I've had to fight not to do so. The GOP is a wicked, self-serving machine that cares nothing for the Constitution or the rule of law but they are a machine without defections or deviation. It is my hope that Schiff and the Dems will continue to uncover more and more evidence of Trump's global crime spree and bring it to light.
The institution - the GOP - has been coopted. It appears to be "wicked" and "self-serving" with no room for script deviation. But I remember Walt Whitman's beautiful words: "Every atom that belongs to me, as good as belongs to you." That accrues easily when I think about my love, my children, ... my dog! And it is also true, however painful, when remembering the humanity of which our opposition is comprised... even a Narcissist-in-Chief...
So, for me, the challenge is put this sentiment you have expressed so adroitly, Dan, into a little lockbox - to review from time to time, but not to hold fast - and force myself to go forward to meet the opposition with as much humility and grace as I can muster while doggedly trying to remove them from power.
I just wish it over so I don't have listen to the RNC, ads that are so full of lies and half truths doesn't candidates have to approve these ads...
I couldn’t watch. It’s too infuriating and they are repeating the same talking points at every hearing, this one with just more hysteria. The plan is working because they don’t care about context. They want clips and sound bites for Fox News and re-election campaigns. Neither side expects the needle to move, both are shoring up their bases. With that said I do not mean to imply they are the same. The Repubs are crooks, liars and only care about their individual interests. It’s not even party over country. It’s ME over country.
So well noted about context, Tracey! and the obvious scripting for their propaganda efforts...
I turned it off and on. It was making me anxious to hear all their lies over and over again but I will never give up the fight. It makes me want to Resist more. Must continue to fight against the lying and corrupt GOP.
Bless you for that sentiment, Michelle! Be sure to find one of the 400+ demonstrations at 5:30pm (your local time wherever you are) the evening before the final vote and GO! Both go to fuel and be fed by the energy that is the other sentient humans who believe as you. We must co-opt and corrupt the information system flow that the GOP have taken over and show another way forward, however tentative it first feels.
I think these folks tuned out a long time ago, and they are so disenfranchised and uninformed that Trump has successfully co-opted their frustration. He speaks in the language of misinformation. Think about it. The Republican Party has demonized scientists and science, the FBI, the CIA, lifetime public service folks, and the press. They aren’t just going after politicians. They’re going after mainstream knowledge and fact.
I watched just about all of it. I found some moments of brilliance by Democrats, and some staggering and pathetic Republican lies. I wasn’t sure if the consistently repugnant Rethugs’ game was to turn people off so they’d turn it off. But most certainly they simply ignored the facts, and never ever presented a rational defense - rather, were needlessly despicable to a person, which was kind of jaw dropping. I could see all members were repeating facts or lies, depending on the side, to accommodate people tuning in at different points. It reminded me of the OJ trial - constantly on no matter where you go, making celebrities of obscure representatives and adding soaring rhetoric or ugly moments that will live forever.
Watching GOP panicked and scared was delicious. Viewers tuned out based on their own ability to manage the rantings of maniacal religious extremists . There were extremely momentous comments from Cicenelli and Jeffries that will go down in history. Swalwell did a 4 minute summary that was unforgettable. The smart investment in a remote with lightning speed mute cannot be overstated😂 . This was much too important for most progressives to ‘tune out’
True. Very much appreciated Cicenelli and the Swalwell summary. Unfortunately it was punctuated by Doug Collins.
I watched off and on. It was so annoying to see the GOP Parade out, one by one and Parrot their remarks. It became a nauseating all day marathon Campaign Ad for Trump. All they needed was for GOP to shout out a phone number, man the lines, and ask for donations. Over and over they were listing the supposed accomplishments under Trump. So, accordiing to GOP, his supposed accomplishments give him the authority to do as he pleases,. Just let him keep breaking the law because the Stock Market looks good. They have nothing to disprove the findings of which clearly show that Trump is guilty and to #ImpeachTrump is the only solution because no one is above the law.
A tweep reminded me that Comey (I know, I know) said that the Russians hacked the Republicans at the same time they hacked the Democrats. The Democrats' emails were released but the Republicans' were not. There must be some wild Kompromat in there. Guessing a combination of sex shenanigans and money laundering. It's the only thing I can think of that would explain their behavior. That and judges.
https://www.cnn.com/2017/01/10/politics/comey-republicans-hacked-russia/index.html
oy!
Only way to explain the 180's done by Miss Lindsey, Ted...
Tuan6262Werawatjust now
I always go through tweeter account of each speaker during the debate. The fact I found is ..... there is very very little number of supporters toward any of GOP speakers ( some of them such as Jim Jordan has zero supporter ). The tweet agenda always overwhelmed with the support on Democrats and there are obvious numbers of Republicans who will not vote for those GOP speakers and Trump for the next election.
I think more Republicans are changing their mind from maintaining the support and vote for present GOP and Trump to be against. This movement is outstanding and obvious, they are making the difference.
Now you're talking! Great idea. Hope you are putting all your newfound insight to good effort -- getting turnout UP is going to be key to winning in 2020. And you're better situated that any of the talking heads on any channel who spend more time in their DC/NYC chairs than out and about.
Watched in disgust everytime GOP spewed lies combined with strokes for their master. What are they afraid of? Collins, Jordan, and Gaetz epitomize desperate people do desperate things. All the world's a stage and Putin is in his glory.
Zak! You hit the pointed nail on its head -- "Putin in all his glory" gets the better of me more than Gaetz' pontificating or Jordan's permanent yelling man-splainin'
I watched till 11..turned the volume down when the screaming republicans were on..frustrating to hear all the lying.
Mueller report was enough for me to want impeachment. Nothing the RepubLIEcans have said changes the FACT that tRump broken the law.
I found the hearings to be a waste of time due to being forced to hear continuous lies spewed from the mouth of the GOP. I most definitely hit mute anytime they spoke.
Unable to watch due to work, but kept up via Twitter. I'm less concerned with the show, and whether anyone is watching, because what matters is the substance: That is, that the House is doing what the Founders designed and what the Constitution intends. That keeps me anchored. However, at the same time I lovedlovedLOVED the way Nadler messed with them and put off the vote until today. Well done, sir.
I started muting the republicans when they started talking about Bidens and screaming. But I watched it almost all day.
I think Andy Johnson did a good number on the pot calling the kettle black...
I’m so sick of the GOP chaos, yelling, fist pounding, but I refuse to let that push me away. That being said the only way I get through it is either pause so my DVR continues to record and I can ffwd right through them or mute! If I’m watching live, I use mute, with closed captioning, so I know the stupid things they say w/o hearing them! I also use their 5 minutes for bathroom breaks, snacks, check mail etc 😊
a strategist... love it!
I watched four hours. At the end I almost felt like the Republicans especially were just shooting the shit reminiscing about good old times. Several of them even complimented chairman Nadler on how he was holding the meeting telling him what a great job he did and what great Pals they've been for many years. It was like a big reminiscence session for the Republicans because they had nothing left of substance to say. I thought gaetz bringing up Hunter Biden crack cocaine and addiction issues in the past was a new low, although one of the Democrats commented that's the pot calling the kettle black do we really want to go there? The Democrats did not go there because they have class. I actually thought it was a stroke of Genius for Nadler to unexpectedly end the hearing forcing Collins to have a big meltdown and walk out. Boo hoo hoo the Republicans have to work today! I understand the narrowness of the Articles because as we go along and more is revealed with other investigations we can add to the articles of impeachment. Especially the ruling on today's the financials. I am truly fascinated by watching history being made.
Great observations, Jamie ~
The GOP were so annoying, intentionally obtuse, yelling, repetitive (Collins, Gaetz, Gohmert, Lesko to name a few) that I began muting them when they appeared, because I had heard their nonsense already.
Great strategy! Along with aforementioned Nerf gun it may be the best way to get through the floor vote...
I listened on and off throughout the day as work permitted, but definitely had to periodically mute Republicans when they became toxicly insulting and/or screaming.
Understandable. I tuned out for a few meetings and caring for a friend yesterday at points... but I challenge you to get out the votes in your area for the election in 2020. Turnout will be KEY, not Tune-out.
I watched as much as I could due to work. But I am tired of the childish behavior GOP. It is sad our country's future rests with a bunch men who act like spoiled children who will not do their chores.
Like with elections, the GOPs only hope for success is to distract, lie, and cheat. It could very well be why the douchebags of doom have become the mouthpiece of the party. No one wants to listen to Jordan and Gaetz.
The shit show was clearly a presentation to assist Republicans at home to rationalize abhorrent behavior by POTUS.
Reasonable people already knew all of the evidence before the hearing as we have been paying attention all along. Therefore, tuning out during a Jim Jordan temper tantrum really isn't a GOP win.
Lastly, it wasn't a water off timer for many reasons. The best of the reasons is simple posterity. The antics of the GOP judicial committee will bring regret and shame to their family and they're country for decades.
I listened in the car but mostly followed twitter feeds at home - the yelling & repetition gets to be too much for my anger levels. Then last night I read Mitch’s brag about how he controlled Obama’s last 2 years of the presidency & how he’s going to coordinate with the WH and, to tell you truth, I am really angry at the world this morning. I barked at my husband for no reason & I’m just feeling like it’s all for naught. How can the Dem senators get past him?
It was terrible to watch. Why do people act this way, and where is their judgement, right from wrong? I’m sure it turned people off. It turned me off. I think those who are country over party will remain and hopefully some were swayed by these antics to fight for country. Vote 2020 and hopefully everyone has a long memory re, Republicans. I hope Dems can act better during the Senate trial. With dignity, I hope.
It was terrible to watch, yes Agnes. I felt as I do when I catch myself "rubbernecking" a highway accident. Can't stop looking, but know you need to keep your eye on what's ahead. I am redoubling my efforts to get folks registered and committed to actually voting...
I watched all until I had to go to a long planned meeting at 6:00. Set the DVR and listened on NPR as a drove. The process is necessary, norms and standards must be followed, but the GOP wasted their time. The Amendments proposed were unrealistic and their arguments unpersuasive not to mention repetitive. Even to people who might not know better, their lies were as obvious as their faux outrage. Sadly, the GOP has gone all in on protecting the President and that's not their job. We deserve better.
I can't watch during the day as I'm at work but listened in the car on the way home. It's very frustrating listening to Republicans spout lies and process issues. I do tend to tune out when they are speaking because I know they will only be spouting off nonsense. I am so concerned that the facts are no longer trusted. That the work of our intelligence agencies and the honorable people who work there are no longer trusted is very scary. I'm not sure how we get back to sanity but I hope it happens soon.
I watched about 75% of the 2 days hearings. The Rs did very little to defend the specifics of the Articles, instead choosing to attack Dems, the process, defend trump at any and every turn, lie, distort, obfuscate and make baseless accusations. They ignored precedent set in previous proceedings, interrupted Dems constantly and did a lot of yelling.
Dems kept hammering facts, testimony, evidence and the constitution. Swalwell was brilliant. Nader was strong and steady.
R's were most interested in the appearance of a tainted process - constantly accusing the Dems of rules and decorum violations, while they were violating rules and decorum.
The one thing that frustrated me was the lack of addressing the specific lies, accusations and distortions. A few did this some of the time, but I would have liked to see more.
Have not been watching as I have a full-time job but I’m not sure I would have been able to stand it if I could have watched. I’m reading the reports of the hearings to maintain my sanity without sparking my anger. I hope those on the right who’ve watched it have been disgusted by the behavior of the Republicans but I don’t discuss it with them so I don’t know their feelings tbh.
Maybe we need the anger, and maybe we should mobilize, to confront them on the ground...
I agree but until there are a lot more people that have reached that point of readiness we’ll just spin our wheels while allowing Repubs to control the anger narrative.
It worked for Brent Kavanaugh.
TBH I fear there will be no other choice for our Democracy other than an eventual explosive civil fight. Call it a civil war or whatever you want but the fires are being stoked & I feel ignoring the possibility only puts off the inevitable.
I am amazed how many people tell me that they don't count - their vote doesn't matter because of where we are in this mess. I point out to them how much worse it can get if they stay disengaged... which is where I sense you are going "Lib." But I suggest there are many alternatives to "explosive civil fights," like Turning Out the Vote in 2020.
I’m not going anywhere near disengagement LDMark. I’m waiting on the rest of the country to catch up to my sense of outrage & readiness to move on to the next level of engagement
I tuned out when I normally would watch something this historic. I already agree with Speaker Pelosi and the Dems- Trump and his cabal need to be held accountable and put on notice. I didn’t need to hear the constant firehouse of lies and insults from the Republicans. It’s exhausting and demoralizing, and does nothing to sway my opinion.
Didn't tune out. The REPS had nothing but venom and vileness. The REPS hated how contained DEMS remained and constantly put focus back on to real issue of corruption.
I read a lot of people's comments about tuning out but honestly, I couldn't do that, it's my Country and Democracy we're talking about. I'm already pissed that this question has to be asked. If you tuned out, wtf is wrong with you?
Nothing wrong with self-care, Ethan. Sometimes it's that and sometimes it's other work or commitments... we can be inundated and still care. Don't just be pissed! Be sure you tune other folks in to your thinking... and turn them on to vote. I am amazed how many people tell me that they don't count - their vote doesn't matter because of where we are in this mess. I point out to them how much worse it can get if they stay disengaged. That's true of me and you both, if we dismiss the question Amee has asked to ignited this excellent thread and responses.
Well some people actually had work to do through most of the hearings, no? Plus, they’re not going to move the needle. No matter what. That ship already sailed. The result is known. I was better off getting my work done to avoid weekend work!
for sure...
I didn't catch the entire thing because I had to work, but was still able to watch about 75% of it. The dems made me proud. They remained calm & rational. They brought up witness testimony and stuck to the facts. There were a few strong convincing speeches and I thought they did a fairly good job at calling out B.S. from the republicans. Unfortunately every last one of the republicans disappointmented me. I was hoping one of them might have a shred of decency and put country over party, but not one single one did. Their "defense" was just distraction & deflection. They mainly focused on irrelevant topics (Hunter Biden this, Hunter Biden that, plus Ukraine corruption, Hillary & Obama), and constantly misrepresented facts by telling half truths and flat out lies. In the evening I started muting some of the more obnoxious reps (Jordan, Gaetz & Collins) because they were just repeating the same schlock over & over. As soon as they were done I tuned right back in.
In my opinion the Dems have presented a strong case, and all my family & friends agree. However we live in a blue bubble and I realize it might take a lot more to convince others. I think the Dems plan to add more articles later and I hope that will help sway public opinion. Once they get their hands on trump's financials we'll see if there is evidence of tax fraud or money laundering. I believe SCOTUS will ultimately rule in Dems favor and they will get his financial records, but how long will it take? If they decide to grant a stay/cert today then we might have to wait until february or march next year. I hope the House an hold off on sending this to the Senate right now. Mitch McConnell has already stated that he is not going to call any witnesses and will move to acquit trump. We all know the republicans will fall in line and they hold the majority.
I watched it all. I told myself eighty times to close the window, it was an endless loop of the GOP circle jerking their time back to Gym and Drunky, all for the same stupid, disingenuous, intentionally flawed characterization of "evidence." I clearly hate myself.
There was a study done on FOX news dumbing you down even if it was just to see what they are saying. I limit how much time I will listen to the GOP in the interest of my INTELLIGENCE.
"keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer" Michael Corleone
The main takeaway is that the Republican party is willing to destroy the republic in deference to the service of one man, and their own hides.
The frustration to me is that while the country is obsessed with impeachment, the climate crisis, the biggest issue of our time or any other, continues unabated. Without solutions, and quick, everything else is a moot point. We have no Planet B.
Well said, Jeff
I don't disagree, Jeff... but impeachment is the context. The GOP, who thought they would rather not deal with climate and rather just hoard more power, are fighting their pitched battles because of your very point. And the rest of us as well, because we know we need to pop the zit and clean up the pus and heal the wound. Hopefully there is enough time...
I watched periodically throughout the day, including the last few hours yesterday evening. The GOP is not a serious political party. Their arguments are mostly about process, and their behavior akin to middle school children. I think their plan to obfuscate and confuse the general public is working, largely because the public doesn't understand the subtleties of U.S.-Ukraine policy. GOP talking points play up those nuances to confuse people.
I now have an unfortunate aversion to certain southern accents and seem to be suffering from depression.
B. -- I was so depressed last night. Fitful sleep and this thread have renewed my confidence some this morning. Take good care of yourself.
Watched partly via twitter with all the re-post from those I like to follow for good information. It is our duty to watch and engage/educate with the 90% of our country tuning out the antics. Proud of so many Dem's reps who are bringing smarts as well as emotions.
Spot on, Kelly! I'm right there with you this morning... but I would be lying if I said I hadn't gotten pretty blue last night by 11...
I did not tune out. Some representatives kept talking about the Bidens being guilty, while others reminded viewers of facts that have been testified to under oath. I mute during the rants that have no substance.
I thought that the Dems did a great job in their responses, shutting down the Reps misinformation campaign. However, I'm sure that Trump's base believed every word that the Reps said. When I was a kid I never understood how anyone could believe in the sincerity of televangelists. This is the same feeling.
televangelist connection -- brilliant!
We watched as much as possible. Muted republicans most of the time.
I tuned out. I think Donald J Dump is the devil incarnate, but the corporate Democrats’ impeachment strategy lost my support when they inexplicably decided not to include any crime in the articles of impeachment.
They're still waiting on SCOTUS to rule on trump's financials. Once dems get their hands on that it will open a whole new can of worms.
I'd like to see something tied to the Mueller report findings.
Floor debate will be interesting... though I doubt they'll entertain any motions, it's bound to be a talking point by many Dems, because the meat is in the Mueller findings.
There is definite merit in this point of view about the narrow-ness of the articles. This is where the overlay of politics and civic duty is most obvious and works to cynicism's benefit. Maybe you can find personal ways in local political efforts this year to work through the impulse to drop the Dem party too! Because for better or worse we need the party.
I vote Democratic and am a registered Dem! I’m actively supporting Warren in Los Angeles (money, canvassing). I could also get excited about Bernie. I’ll vote and support whoever wins the primary, but candidly it’s hard for me to actually get *excited* about anyone else.
I meant more like getting excited about politics locally - like neighborhood, or apartment/homes association - like union or school board - whatever. Building a bench again for engaged folks -- civically motivated. The "just a regular Juan" equivalent of the civil servants we saw testify about their work at State/NSC/DOD... etc. :-)
Ah, this is a great point. One can make so much more difference that way and it’s a direction I’ve been trying to head towards. My energy outside of national politics has been supporting our local public school and district. What about you? Great comments from you on these threads BTW.
I got up off my derrière in 2014. The far right took over state government in 2012 and then solidified in 2014... it's been a slog ever since, but I got a lot of "reinforcements" in 2016. I focus on issues, not party labels (not a secret once your position is known, usually, but it helps to keep the crazy at a manageable decibel level). I work to turn out the vote with relational, voter-to-voter engagement tools. I work on common-sense legislation at the statehouse with orgs. that have long been advocating in that realm (don't reinvent-the-wheel-when-the-train's-going-off-the-rails idea). I try to hold elected officials to account for what they said they would do and didn't and for all they do that we never gave them permission for! :D
Lost me when they didn't take their challenge to court for the information and witnesses that I think could of changed more public support.
They need to include emoluments clause violations! That is the kind of crime that everyone can understand, and what his own supporters think he's fighting against. Once it's clear that he has been using his office for personal financial gain, you'll see the tide turn against him.
I didn’t tune out. It served to reenforce my belief that trump and the GOP must be replaced by people who will honor their vows to the constitution. They have made a sham of democracy and it makes me sad and angry. We must fight harder. I hope the Dems can get their act together.
I definitely did not watch after hearing others report all the GOP did was send out their usual shrill flying monkeys and their usual delusional defenses that “Trump did nothing wrong,” “It’s a hysterical hoax and witch hunt,” “Democrats hate him and hate us,” blah blah blah. But that is a win for them because if someone like me who has made my mind up long ago that Trump has committed impeachable crimes, there is someone who is still unconvinced that also turned it off. Dems need to call these scumbags liars and throw them out of the proceedings if they can’t control themselves in public. Upholding the Constitution isn’t something the GOP is capable of, but they need restraint and the Dems need to figure out a way to do that.
You got style, Rev. Wendy!
It was hard to watch but I think Republicans succeeded. It'was frustrating to watch and exposed all the flaws of our 2 party system. There has got to be a better way. I mean someone actually said facts aren't facts. That's when I broke out the wine...