With the latest news just released about Jeffrey Epstein and the autopsy details creating even more suspicion, what do you think really happened? (Here’s my summary of what we know so far: What Really Happened to Epstein.)
Hummm. Definitely something odd going on. I wonder if someone gave these two guards a cup of coffee with sleep aids in it? Knocked them out, then killed him? I can see these guys dozing off, but sleeping for several hours? I doubt we will ever know the absolute truth without video or witnesses. Gosh, you just can't make this s**t up. Every. Single. Day.
It's a prison. Cameras? Somewhere? I don't doubt he was suicidal and the injuries (from the vague reports) could be consistent with suicide, but there are two possible very concerning things here. Either he was left alone with the intent of him "finishing the job," or somebody helped him to his death. The fact that there is not definitive statement (except from Barr and his word is worthless) is troubling, to say the least.
Given all the facts: guards falsifying documents, sleeping, camera outside cell "not working," removal of cell mate, serious violations of BOP protocol and what's been released from autopsy regarding broken hyoid and other neck bones, it is very possible he was killed. At the very least, the guards have culpability in his death.
That all being said, without evidence of homicide, will we ever know?
We will probably never know the truth! This runs too deep or should I say this runs high up!?! Let's face it, he knew so much he had now become a liability.
With such a public outrage the events leading up to his death are suspicious at the very least. Takin off suicide watch just within 6 days is suspicious. His cell mate moving out the night before is suspicious. Going hours without being checked on when he was supposed to be checked on is suspicious. So many high profile prisoners have been at MCC with no problem, most recently El Chappo who escaped prison 3 previous times in other facilities and had no problem there. The lack of information being told to the public is suspicious. Most importantly, the woman who were little girls at the time will NEVER feel that they got the justice they deserve from the man who sex trafficked and was raped by him. They above everyone else deserve all the answers.
Broken neck fits with his age & suicide BUT, it fits even more with a homicide. When you add that 2 all the other curious circumstances along with Barr's refusal 2 recuse then how can we accept a suicide? That is expecting us to be sheep. To ignore our instincts and fact. Can we be fooled? Are we being gaslighted? Are we being conspiracy kooks? I don't know. My common sense tells me to be skeptical.
Guess I have watched my share of the Blacklist to realize that this extremely wealthy criminal was either killed or switched out. The fact that it happened the day after the unsealed docs were released. Many of the world's wealthiest losing it over that. Epstein wasn't just a slimy pedophile,he was on University boards,donated mega dollars to scientists,etc...This creep was a player in the TransNationalCrimeSyndicate ,imo.
I'm not into conspiracy theories, in general. But, there is no way this is just a case of understaffing. When someone has made a recent suicide attempt in a jail, (I'm commenting as a therapist) it is negligent to allow that person to have the means to make another attempt. There are three things which indicate suicide risk - ideation, plan and means. Epstein had already indicated by his previous actions that he had suicidal ideation and a plan. What he would have lacked, were he on suicide watch, was the means. Even if he told a psychiatrist that he was no longer suicidal, that could change in a split second if means were provided. The fact that protocols were not followed for someone who had made a recent attempt makes the staff responsible. The question remains: was giving Epstein the opportunity intentional? As far as I'm concerned, that is akin to murder. It appears that the guards may be fall guys. There is something very fishy here.
I'm sad and confused that more information hasn't come out. It only adds to the speculation and conspiracy. The broken hyoid is definitely concerning, but apparently not so much in middle-aged men. My bigger question is if they're so confident he hung himself, what did he do it with? Where's other footage in the prison? Did anyone else hear anything, like a thud?
It's so exasperating that we're just getting bits and pieces. I think that we deserve more. The fact that they're hiding as much as they are and there's so much obfuscation certainly makes me suspicious.
I’m waiting for more facts to be revealed. The key question for me is WHY he was taken off suicide watch and WHO made / approved that decision? Did Barr know? Did his attorneys request/demand it? I can see why he would want to kill himself he knew he faced the rest of his life in jail. He was a con man in the end, so could easily fake ‘good spirits‘ to get off suicide watch. He wasn’t stupid and could see the writing on the wall. His attorneys last visit.. what was said? Did he move money and/or transfer assets to someone else? If so who? Is there Video of the cell floor to see who came and went the past 24-48 hrs? What was the exact timeline of events the 24hrs preceding his death? Too many unanswered questions. It’s either a stunning failure of the system OR something really nefarious went down. I’m on the fence.
I was remaining neutral but as facts unfold it appears more than incidental he was murdered to be silenced. Barr is very familiar with "clean up" operations, and considering his/others involvement and the spider web of connections, he needed to protect the powerful. Reading about the broken neck, I'm convinced it's a crime in plain sight, but I don't think we'll ever know, a mystery now bound to the pages of history, books and many movies of course.
Another... "file under I can't believe this shit" in this administration.
Worldwide Crime Syndicate, will rich white powerful perverts finally be exposed?
I certainly do not have a criminial forensic background but his injuries could not possibly have been his doing... We are living in a DRAMA that has so many twists and turns and the fingers are pointing to one....
Thanks, Amee, for presenting this on-going story so well. Two additional points/rumors: 1. Did Barr visit Epstein? If so, why? Has anyone asked him? 2. There are reports that Ghislaine Maxwell has finally been located, apparently living in Manchester-by-the-Sea in NY state. Why now?
First, has anyone (reliable) verifies it’s his body? 2nd, One thought I read on Twitter is he is really in witness-protection program. 3rd, all the fellow pedophiles in high places helped him escape for their own protection... or arranged his killing. Suicide? NOT!
I think the hyoid bone damage specifically might be suspect but it's consistent with a guy his age hanging himself, imo. I think the bigger issue here is the utter failure of everyone & every process involved in running that prison
Also the broken hyoid bone being more ‘prevalent’ in homicides than suicides comment is based on a study of 20 male suicides in Thailand. Hardly a solid foundation to make such a claim. Seems there must be better references? Still waiting for the autopsy report to see what conclusions are made. The fact there has not been a formal press conference by ANYONE in this admin. Is disgraceful.
Not sure I have come to a definitive conclusion at this point but it sure seems like there was a lot of negligence on the part of the prison and it's staff. Whether that was intentional (at the request of someone) or the mere fact that the staff is grossly incompetent is still to be determined.
Given the dishonest AG and resident of WH, the questions re: Epstein's death will never be answered.
Re-reading articles about trail of dead Russians--"• Lesin's hyoid -- a bone located about midway between the larynx and the jaw bone -- was completely fractured;"! Sound familiar? https://www.rferl.org/a/lesin-autopsy-record/29824566.html
Read articles about dead Russians in NY--NYPD clams up there as well. *sighs*
It’s kinda irrelevant to this thread, but interesting that it was Barr’s father that gave young Epstein his start. As Dalton headmaster, Barr Sr. hired unqualified, un-degreed Epstein to teach calculus. Epstein made friends with rich & powerful and off he went. This was months after Barr Sr. published soft core sci-fi book (scandalous in elected prep school circles at the time).
Way to many people wanted him silenced, for their involvement in the sex and money holding by Epstein. This was a overlook of high ranking politicians. Pretty bad stuff going on under a trump presidency.
As a rule, I never believe it's suicide. Authorities love to jump to that conclusion because otherwise they have to solve a murder. Suicide is such an easy crime to fake, no I don't believe it. Specifically in this case, how hard would it be to break your own neck? People say it's easy or the coward's way out to commit suicide. The truth is, it's the most difficult thing a person could ever do. Unless you have a handful of pills, you have to physically murder yourself in a brutal fashion. In addition, perhaps hundreds of powerful people had motive to shut him up. No, this was a hit and the assassin or assassins are already dead. We'll never know what happened, but Bill Barr, after much hand-wringing will declare it a suicide and fire a few people.
There's too much going on for there *not* to have been something going on, IMO. I despise conspiracy theories, & have been fighting w/myself to avoid thinking this way--but an abundance of key, diverse factors have come together to create the perfect out for too many, who have 'way too much to lose if Epstein's trove of secrets were to become known. A case in point: the shortage of staff, w/non-officer personnel performing custody duties. This is an aberration of the first order--yet the underlying shortage was apparently allowed to build to a level that led to a major violation of security protocol, involving a high-profile prisoner. Totally unacceptable. Congress is right to demand an investigation, & I hope they hang on like the proverbial bulldog!
Suspiciously a prisoner was moved that day. Unusual. Who was that prisoner? Oh was the alleged body of Epstein cremated already? cough cough cough...Who would protect him? A child rapist? A child trafficker? hmmmm Who are the other co-conspirators who were left off the hook in the first sweet deal Epstein got? Follow the money...
It is so important for all the victims that the truth comes out, we bear witness to their pain, and justice happens. I hope not a single predictor is able to stay in hiding. Times Up!
Hummm. Definitely something odd going on. I wonder if someone gave these two guards a cup of coffee with sleep aids in it? Knocked them out, then killed him? I can see these guys dozing off, but sleeping for several hours? I doubt we will ever know the absolute truth without video or witnesses. Gosh, you just can't make this s**t up. Every. Single. Day.
It's a prison. Cameras? Somewhere? I don't doubt he was suicidal and the injuries (from the vague reports) could be consistent with suicide, but there are two possible very concerning things here. Either he was left alone with the intent of him "finishing the job," or somebody helped him to his death. The fact that there is not definitive statement (except from Barr and his word is worthless) is troubling, to say the least.
Given all the facts: guards falsifying documents, sleeping, camera outside cell "not working," removal of cell mate, serious violations of BOP protocol and what's been released from autopsy regarding broken hyoid and other neck bones, it is very possible he was killed. At the very least, the guards have culpability in his death.
That all being said, without evidence of homicide, will we ever know?
We will probably never know the truth! This runs too deep or should I say this runs high up!?! Let's face it, he knew so much he had now become a liability.
With such a public outrage the events leading up to his death are suspicious at the very least. Takin off suicide watch just within 6 days is suspicious. His cell mate moving out the night before is suspicious. Going hours without being checked on when he was supposed to be checked on is suspicious. So many high profile prisoners have been at MCC with no problem, most recently El Chappo who escaped prison 3 previous times in other facilities and had no problem there. The lack of information being told to the public is suspicious. Most importantly, the woman who were little girls at the time will NEVER feel that they got the justice they deserve from the man who sex trafficked and was raped by him. They above everyone else deserve all the answers.
Broken neck fits with his age & suicide BUT, it fits even more with a homicide. When you add that 2 all the other curious circumstances along with Barr's refusal 2 recuse then how can we accept a suicide? That is expecting us to be sheep. To ignore our instincts and fact. Can we be fooled? Are we being gaslighted? Are we being conspiracy kooks? I don't know. My common sense tells me to be skeptical.
Guess I have watched my share of the Blacklist to realize that this extremely wealthy criminal was either killed or switched out. The fact that it happened the day after the unsealed docs were released. Many of the world's wealthiest losing it over that. Epstein wasn't just a slimy pedophile,he was on University boards,donated mega dollars to scientists,etc...This creep was a player in the TransNationalCrimeSyndicate ,imo.
Unless I see a body with DNA, I'm betting he's drinking a cocktail out of a skull with Prince Bone Saw, in Saudia by now.
I'm not into conspiracy theories, in general. But, there is no way this is just a case of understaffing. When someone has made a recent suicide attempt in a jail, (I'm commenting as a therapist) it is negligent to allow that person to have the means to make another attempt. There are three things which indicate suicide risk - ideation, plan and means. Epstein had already indicated by his previous actions that he had suicidal ideation and a plan. What he would have lacked, were he on suicide watch, was the means. Even if he told a psychiatrist that he was no longer suicidal, that could change in a split second if means were provided. The fact that protocols were not followed for someone who had made a recent attempt makes the staff responsible. The question remains: was giving Epstein the opportunity intentional? As far as I'm concerned, that is akin to murder. It appears that the guards may be fall guys. There is something very fishy here.
I'm sad and confused that more information hasn't come out. It only adds to the speculation and conspiracy. The broken hyoid is definitely concerning, but apparently not so much in middle-aged men. My bigger question is if they're so confident he hung himself, what did he do it with? Where's other footage in the prison? Did anyone else hear anything, like a thud?
It's so exasperating that we're just getting bits and pieces. I think that we deserve more. The fact that they're hiding as much as they are and there's so much obfuscation certainly makes me suspicious.
will we ever know? I say he was snuffed. I just don't believe he was in long enough to think he could not beat the 'rap(e)s'.
I’m waiting for more facts to be revealed. The key question for me is WHY he was taken off suicide watch and WHO made / approved that decision? Did Barr know? Did his attorneys request/demand it? I can see why he would want to kill himself he knew he faced the rest of his life in jail. He was a con man in the end, so could easily fake ‘good spirits‘ to get off suicide watch. He wasn’t stupid and could see the writing on the wall. His attorneys last visit.. what was said? Did he move money and/or transfer assets to someone else? If so who? Is there Video of the cell floor to see who came and went the past 24-48 hrs? What was the exact timeline of events the 24hrs preceding his death? Too many unanswered questions. It’s either a stunning failure of the system OR something really nefarious went down. I’m on the fence.
I was remaining neutral but as facts unfold it appears more than incidental he was murdered to be silenced. Barr is very familiar with "clean up" operations, and considering his/others involvement and the spider web of connections, he needed to protect the powerful. Reading about the broken neck, I'm convinced it's a crime in plain sight, but I don't think we'll ever know, a mystery now bound to the pages of history, books and many movies of course.
Another... "file under I can't believe this shit" in this administration.
Worldwide Crime Syndicate, will rich white powerful perverts finally be exposed?
It seems likely that he may have been murdered either to keep him quiet or because he refused to off him (out of self preservation.)
I certainly do not have a criminial forensic background but his injuries could not possibly have been his doing... We are living in a DRAMA that has so many twists and turns and the fingers are pointing to one....
Thanks, Amee, for presenting this on-going story so well. Two additional points/rumors: 1. Did Barr visit Epstein? If so, why? Has anyone asked him? 2. There are reports that Ghislaine Maxwell has finally been located, apparently living in Manchester-by-the-Sea in NY state. Why now?
First, has anyone (reliable) verifies it’s his body? 2nd, One thought I read on Twitter is he is really in witness-protection program. 3rd, all the fellow pedophiles in high places helped him escape for their own protection... or arranged his killing. Suicide? NOT!
I think the hyoid bone damage specifically might be suspect but it's consistent with a guy his age hanging himself, imo. I think the bigger issue here is the utter failure of everyone & every process involved in running that prison
Also the broken hyoid bone being more ‘prevalent’ in homicides than suicides comment is based on a study of 20 male suicides in Thailand. Hardly a solid foundation to make such a claim. Seems there must be better references? Still waiting for the autopsy report to see what conclusions are made. The fact there has not been a formal press conference by ANYONE in this admin. Is disgraceful.
Not sure I have come to a definitive conclusion at this point but it sure seems like there was a lot of negligence on the part of the prison and it's staff. Whether that was intentional (at the request of someone) or the mere fact that the staff is grossly incompetent is still to be determined.
Given the dishonest AG and resident of WH, the questions re: Epstein's death will never be answered.
Re-reading articles about trail of dead Russians--"• Lesin's hyoid -- a bone located about midway between the larynx and the jaw bone -- was completely fractured;"! Sound familiar? https://www.rferl.org/a/lesin-autopsy-record/29824566.html
Read articles about dead Russians in NY--NYPD clams up there as well. *sighs*
It was not a suicide. He was murdered. I doubt we will ever know who did it! It will be a government cover up!
It’s kinda irrelevant to this thread, but interesting that it was Barr’s father that gave young Epstein his start. As Dalton headmaster, Barr Sr. hired unqualified, un-degreed Epstein to teach calculus. Epstein made friends with rich & powerful and off he went. This was months after Barr Sr. published soft core sci-fi book (scandalous in elected prep school circles at the time).
Way to many people wanted him silenced, for their involvement in the sex and money holding by Epstein. This was a overlook of high ranking politicians. Pretty bad stuff going on under a trump presidency.
As a rule, I never believe it's suicide. Authorities love to jump to that conclusion because otherwise they have to solve a murder. Suicide is such an easy crime to fake, no I don't believe it. Specifically in this case, how hard would it be to break your own neck? People say it's easy or the coward's way out to commit suicide. The truth is, it's the most difficult thing a person could ever do. Unless you have a handful of pills, you have to physically murder yourself in a brutal fashion. In addition, perhaps hundreds of powerful people had motive to shut him up. No, this was a hit and the assassin or assassins are already dead. We'll never know what happened, but Bill Barr, after much hand-wringing will declare it a suicide and fire a few people.
The NY Mag interview with his Russian bodyguard was quite chilling........
There's too much going on for there *not* to have been something going on, IMO. I despise conspiracy theories, & have been fighting w/myself to avoid thinking this way--but an abundance of key, diverse factors have come together to create the perfect out for too many, who have 'way too much to lose if Epstein's trove of secrets were to become known. A case in point: the shortage of staff, w/non-officer personnel performing custody duties. This is an aberration of the first order--yet the underlying shortage was apparently allowed to build to a level that led to a major violation of security protocol, involving a high-profile prisoner. Totally unacceptable. Congress is right to demand an investigation, & I hope they hang on like the proverbial bulldog!
Like the Kennedy assassination, we mere mortals will never know the truth.
Suspiciously a prisoner was moved that day. Unusual. Who was that prisoner? Oh was the alleged body of Epstein cremated already? cough cough cough...Who would protect him? A child rapist? A child trafficker? hmmmm Who are the other co-conspirators who were left off the hook in the first sweet deal Epstein got? Follow the money...
It is so important for all the victims that the truth comes out, we bear witness to their pain, and justice happens. I hope not a single predictor is able to stay in hiding. Times Up!